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標題: [時事] 各位, 我家下真係火都黎埋!!!! (有關同性戀評論) [打印本頁]

作者: dalolipop    時間: 2012-11-12 04:44     標題: 各位, 我家下真係火都黎埋!!!! (有關同性戀評論)

我自己都係我"朋友" 同 "其朋友" 的facebook 搵到好多呢類型的評論..
我其實覺得好心噏.
有人用自己立場, 有人用宗教為理據去討論呢件事, 但係一直在傷害別人.好多用愛出發的人, 自稱為有知識的人.. 居然寫出呢d野..
試問, 呢個世界發生咩事?

quote 比大家睇下:

" ....今日講好似好似無可能, 但如果有日, 個社會係好多人
開始亂倫, 阿仔同阿媽攪埋一齊, 兄弟姐妹攪埋一齊....

之後大家遷覺得, 佢地有自由JA, 又唔會影響到其他人既.
之後要立法, 要遊行.....有無攪錯!?"

"咁你可唔可以比個數據我, 究竟幾多係天生, 幾多係自己選擇,
如果係後天選擇既, 我相信佢地會預左有D人一定會歧視, 但你吹咩?
人地立左法依然歧視,你又吹咩? 你自己選擇行呢條路, 唔該你地,
咁大個人,應該知道有咩風險係預左,
你想人地唔用奇異眼光望你, 搵周公啦!
望就實望架啦, 玩得呢個GAME就預左啦, 你唔係以為所有人都咁好人識尊重呀?
真係好鬼勞氣, 我比你立法咁又點, D人咪更加對你地反感,
唔好迷信樣樣野上左街就會達到啦,
你唔通問人地點解炒你, 點解唔請你? 你估人地真係會講因為你大肚,
因為你同性戀, 唔好咁天真啦, 人地求其話要縮減人手, 或者請夠人禍,
咁你吹咩? 打佢呀? 告佢呀?
我同你講, 呢D人唔會咁蠢,咁傻仔講出來囉, 你到時依然都係搵唔到工."

"一旦立法, 我擔心既係一些青少年對性取向不清晰時,貿然選擇同性戀, 佢地亦都會因為承受被人歧視既壓力而選擇輕生, 變相鼓吹同性戀, 點解唔可以將資源放係教育青少年點樣選擇性取向, 再去評估佢地究竟係天生, 定係純粹試下呢?
你知道我因為咩事被人歧視? 你唔會知, 你呢世都唔會知,
至於等天收呢樣野, 我一定會比天收,因為我死左會係天國同其他人相聚"


我唔知大家會對呢堆野有咩反應, 但係我....
各位, 我家下真係火都黎埋!!!!
作者: dalolipop    時間: 2012-11-12 04:45

我一直都好少開post, 但今次, 我真係好火我要開post 了。
作者: gummy    時間: 2012-11-12 06:57

Omg... I read quite a number of posts on my news feed from my friends too and they are more or less the same as the ones you quoted... It is as though they are having a hard time accepting their own narrow-mindedness and discriminatory tendencies but at the same time are against gay marriage and gay rights.  Their fears are irrational.  I have a friend who said we should not discriminate against gays but at the same time they do not have to get married as marriage is a choice....

If you don't want to discriminate then how come the choice, the right to get married should we want to make that choice, is still absent in HK society today?  It makes no sense!

Her opinions are already a lot more mild... there are "educated" people on my friends list, a teacher and a social worker, both men and Christian, and one expressed how upset he is to see the corruption of this world and the other one said nothing.  Silence is sometimes more powerful as he would often post a lot of stuff about equal rights for other marginalized groups......
作者: vincent503    時間: 2012-11-12 07:39

亂倫又跟同性混為一談。。
佢地係對同性戀太唔認識
真係異性戀。。去到最後都會直返。。根本係另一種既方式下搵唔到enjoy既love
即使比兩個同性戀一男一女上床。。佢地都唔會enjoy sex

不過我諗唔好太激動。。中國傳統既係對同性冇咁開放。。要一步步黎
或者因為上街之後會增加言論。。加深認識
可能係一場十幾年既革命。。唔急在一時
作者: cobalt    時間: 2012-11-12 08:23

"The precise challenge for morally serious people is to make rational distinctions between what is arbitrary and what is essential in important social institutions. ... If you want to argue that a lifetime of loving, faithful commitment between two women is equivalent to incest or child abuse, then please argue it. It would make for fascinating reading. But spare us this bizarre point that no new line can be drawn in access to marriage—or else everything is up for grabs and, before we know where we are, men will be marrying their dogs." - Andrew Sullivan.

如果有人認為兩個人相愛而committed 的關係同等於亂倫,請他們繼續說下去。It is not an argument, it is a panic. 已持有這種想法的人,真的很難說服。不過,起碼旁觀的人,可能會慢慢看到我們這一方的道理。

如果真的想與這些人"討論"下去,可以看看: www.arguingequality.org/chapter6.htm
辯論和邏輯推理有樣野叫reverse slippery slope. 當一個人可以往亂倫這個方向作assumption, 那麼也應該思考以前"傳統定義的婚姻"的人不贊成不同膚色的人,不同階級的人結婚,是否正確。

不要為他們太過勞氣。
作者: cobalt    時間: 2012-11-12 08:30



QUOTE:
原帖由 gummy 於 2012-11-12 06:57 發表
Omg... I read quite a number of posts on my news feed from my friends too and they are more or less the same as the ones you quoted... It is as though they are having a hard time accepting their  ...

It also makes my head explode when people jump into the middle and seem to believe they are very liberal, when they really really believe that we need to compromise by saying, "I am neutral, i am not homophobic. But you don't have to get married."
Marriage is not just a piece of paper, it entails more than just housing benefits, hospital visitation rights, it is also about its intrinsic significance.
I always want to ask them. So, which part of my relationship is "lesser" than yours? If you don't think so, shouldn't we be equal? If your "hey i'm not homophobic but.." is acceptance, i'm not sure if i want to take it. Rights are called rights for a reason, why do we have to compromise?
作者: 占少    時間: 2012-11-12 08:54

其實你要香港呢個社會一時間去接受係有啲困難
不過遊行左咁多年我估唔多唔少都說服到啲人既
只不過香港係保守啲無台灣咁開放架啦
何必同佢地一般見識呢?
作者: gummy    時間: 2012-11-12 09:13



QUOTE:
原帖由 cobalt 於 2012-11-12 08:23 發表
"The precise challenge for morally serious people is to make rational distinctions between what is arbitrary and what is essential in important social institutions. ... If you want to argue  ...

Thank you for sharing that powerful quote.  I will share it on my Facebook.  Food for thought!
I would like to discuss further with them and get them thinking about their logical fallacies, but at this point I'm not sure if they would be ready and open to that yet...
I also find it fascinating how straight people think that once gay marriage is legal many more people will be more open to experiment with their sexuality.  Well well... isn't that a good thing? ;)
作者: cobalt    時間: 2012-11-12 09:24     標題: 回復 #8 gummy 的帖子

You're welcome.

You know. Sometimes i feel that people who are really so invested in thinking about the consequences of "legalizing the gays". Why do they care so much? I'm not Freud but i think could be some really repressed feelings.

Like, i really love cats but i have allergies so if my neighbour has a cat, i run to complain about them due to my extreme jealousy; VS. i don't really have special feelings for cats so if my neighbour has a cat, cool i will go water my plants.
作者: gummy    時間: 2012-11-12 09:52

Great analogy lol!  Repressed feelings... I wonder why they feel so threatened too.  For example, for fundamentalist Christians I can kind of see it, as homosexuality appears to be in direct conflict with Biblical teachings.  So the recognition of gay rights and gay marriage can undermine core value principles of the religion.  However even within the Christian religion some churches have adapted an open door policy and are welcoming the LGBT community into their congregation too!
作者: Casper    時間: 2012-11-12 13:27

其實就算佢認識左,佢了解咗,都可以選擇有bias,
呢個係佢既選擇,
就好似基督教,我聽左10幾年,我信有耶穌,有神,
我都唔會跟從佢一樣~~

其實,與其去說服一啲冇咩可能說服既人,
甚至,去討論一啲冇可能有結果既討論,
不如做好自己,
總有一日改變到呢個社會既時候,
佢地既思想或者都會改變,又或者繼續唔會改變,
但係又如何?
重要既,根本唔係佢地。
作者: dalolipop    時間: 2012-11-12 14:11

我覺得佢地對話中好多侵犯左其他人的人格。
你睇下最近, 好似張宇人會話同性戀ge 人會呃福利個d..
我覺得bias 已經去到太極端。
作者: sloggi123    時間: 2012-11-12 14:18

網上討論甚至罵戰唔係無用ge...始終要有鍵盤戰士, 因為唔係好多機會俾我地發聲, 亦唔敢啦. 我覺得.....始終最大影響力係唔好串串貢, 當街痴纏同埋溝人條女...身邊好多人都唔覺同志係弱勢, 你俾人整佢地只會覺得係抵L死因為你唔正常. 佢地點會覺得自己既"觀點"係"成見/歧視". 總之基佬就嘔心TB就爭食2樣都唔應該存在. 中國人咁講傳宗接代同面子, 生個GAY既出黎仲慘過抽唔到居屋, 點改變到.... :-\

最慘係家陣同類都歧視同類, 見人條女醜就撬人, 又一堆GIRLISH*2先係正常, TB唔正常...
作者: wleey2500    時間: 2012-11-12 14:19

選擇同性戀? that's new to me. lol

佢地要嬲咪由得佢地囉, 發火會傷肝架, 樓主唔好同佢地一齊傷肝先得架 =)

you can't control what people think because the brains are theirs.
but you can make yourself feel better by merely laughing at their innocence and mistaken thoughts =)

要"整個世界換風氣" 唔容易, 好似樓上咁講, 會係一場持久戰
所以我地既心理要好好調整
連仗都未開始打已經輸左, 唔得架 =)
作者: dalolipop    時間: 2012-11-12 14:55

嗯, 之少我地會support 自己
thanks all!
作者: jw228    時間: 2012-11-12 15:22



QUOTE:
原帖由 sloggi123 於 2012-11-12 14:18 發表
最慘係家陣同類都歧視同類, 見人條女醜就撬人, 又一堆GIRLISH*2先係正常, TB唔正常....

同意, 一早已覺得有這樣的問題, 大家要懂得互相尊重和團結才有希望
作者: Casper    時間: 2012-11-12 16:13

Steorotype 有時自己都要負責任,
大家做好啲,團結啲,
總有一日,有一部分人會因為咁,
而對我地改觀。
作者: dalolipop    時間: 2012-11-12 16:24

都係個句喇, 做好自己先人地就無野講.

不過所謂當街痴纏呢d.. 就算我地唔做, 出面大把人都係咁
如果同樣ge 野做出黎, 我地比人覺得唔好睇, 其他人就無事..
咁, 呢樣野就已經係歧視啦..
作者: Casper    時間: 2012-11-12 16:35

其實我係會歧視出面啲痴纏男女的~~
係歧視佢地既行為而唔係性別~

之但係當呢個社會未接受而我地正在爭取既時候,
某程度上,我地都要有適當既妥協,
係唔公平,
但係做好自己,點都唔係懷事~~

[ 本帖最後由 Casper 於 2012-11-12 16:42 編輯 ]
作者: cybercoffee    時間: 2012-11-12 23:08

從小到大, 我們在香港讀書, 都沒有學習過, 怎麼和同志相處, 甚至沒有老師告訴你, 世界上都有人鍾意同性.
歧視源於無知, 我覺得.
不要為無知生氣...其實現在的社會, 將會有更多年青朋友願意COME OUT, 也可以說, 將會有更多反對聲音出來, 因為以前無咁多人out, 佢地見唔到同志, 依家見到, 會驚.
他們都需要時間適應.
想想, 其實佢地都幾慘.
作者: fee    時間: 2012-11-13 00:11

幸運地 我活響叫做無乜歧視嘅圈子生活
一直都相安無事活響自己世界…
直到近日好多新聞 我隨意去睇yahoo news d comment,
我唔知係我嘅世界太好 定yahoo嘅人太bias,
響字行間 我感到嚴重被歧視 我好唔開心好沮喪。
只不過係字詞 現實生活 我未受過咁嘅對待。
我曾經打過一篇好長嘅留言 續點反駁大部份人所講嘅"理據"
有人回應我 但從來無就我嘅論點而回應,
只係話我顛倒黑白 話我要自我反省
我問 請問要反省啲咩
佢只係自顧自說 內容空洞無理據
但總之講到我好似出世就係一個錯誤咁
同性戀=世界末日

只不過大家各有喜好
你鐘意蘋果我鐘意橙咁簡單不過嘅事
驚啲咩呢?或者佢地比我地更驚
因為人往往會對於未知嘅事感到害怕。

[ 本帖最後由 fee 於 2012-11-13 00:14 編輯 ]
作者: sloggi123    時間: 2012-11-13 12:24

yahoo news 出名多五毛, 竟然連呢d 觀點都同建制派同出一轍...
作者: Casper    時間: 2012-11-13 12:57



QUOTE:
原帖由 sloggi123 於 2012-11-13 12:24 發表
yahoo news 出名多五毛, 竟然連呢d 觀點都同建制派同出一轍...

題外話,支持中國都唔表示係五毛嚟既,我返面覺得好多人鐘諗屈人係五毛,非黑即白既思想太強烈。
作者: Casper    時間: 2012-11-13 19:17



QUOTE:
原帖由 sloggi123 於 2012-11-13 12:24 發表
yahoo news 出名多五毛, 竟然連呢d 觀點都同建制派同出一轍...

題外話,支持中國都唔表示係五毛嚟既,我返而覺得好多人鐘意屈人係五毛,非黑即白既思想太強烈。

[ 本帖最後由 Casper 於 2012-11-13 23:37 編輯 ]
作者: RICHTER    時間: 2012-11-13 23:35

講咩都係次要,背負得起「非主流性取向」既身份,就要先做好自己,比其他人做得更有成就,人地就唔敢睇少你!恐同怪眼中所見到既Les多數係學生妹,或者係好年輕既初級從業員,佢地覺得Les多數係無咩學識/無咩社會地位既女仔,最多外表上好似好男性化既非男非女,所以覺得Les好烚。情況有如上世紀八十年代前,女性地位都係比男人低,當時同級但女性薪酬比男性低既情況係好「合理」,只因當時女性受高等教育機會少,社會地位自然低,所以女人被歧視,去到80年代開始,多左女性高層/有社會地位既女性,女性先夠牙力爭取男女平等。追求平等&尊重只靠一次兩次甚至日日示威嗌口號都唔一定有用,只有靠自己爭氣先有實力同人fright平等!
作者: Miu's    時間: 2012-11-14 02:24

睇完反而係傷心多過嬲
好明顯佢地係係深山住架!
作者: Miu's    時間: 2012-11-14 02:24

睇完反而係傷心多過嬲
好明顯佢地係係深山住架!
作者: guardianangel    時間: 2012-11-14 04:37

Yes I always suspect that these highly homophobic people have strong homosexual desires indeed. That is called internalized homophobia.好多時我睇到d恐同人士咁講野,都會覺得佢地好可悲,多過覺得嬲

Quoted from wikipedia:
Some studies have shown that people who are homophobic are more likely to have repressed homosexual desires.[58] In 1996, a controlled study of 64 heterosexual men (half said they were homophobic by experience, with self-reported orientation) at the University of Georgia found that men who were found to be homophobic (as measured by the Index of Homophobia)[59] were considerably more likely to experience more erectile responses when exposed to homoerotic images than non-homophobic men.[60] Another study in 2012 arrived at similar results when researchers found that students who came from "the most rigid anti-gay homes" were most likely to reveal repressed homosexual attraction.[61] The researchers noted that this explained why some religious leaders who denounce homosexuality are later revealed to have secret homosexual relations.[61] The researchers noted that "these people are at war with themselves and are turning this internal conflict outward."[61]


QUOTE:
原帖由 cobalt 於 2012-11-12 09:24 發表
You're welcome.

You know. Sometimes i feel that people who are really so invested in thinking about the consequences of "legalizing the gays". Why do they care so much? I'm not Fr ...

[ 本帖最後由 guardianangel 於 2012-11-14 04:39 編輯 ]
作者: little    時間: 2012-11-15 22:29



QUOTE:
原帖由 Casper 於 2012-11-13 12:57 發表

題外話,支持中國都唔表示係五毛嚟既,我返面覺得好多人鐘諗屈人係五毛,非黑即白既思想太強烈。

大是大非就一定是非黑即白,否則只會世風日下,引致天下大亂,但世事總有灰色地帶,可酌情於法律、道理,人情來處理融和,在人性自利和普世公義上取得平衡,使社會發展得更有效率,。
作者: Casper    時間: 2012-11-15 22:35



QUOTE:
原帖由 little 於 2012-11-15 22:29 發表

大是大非就一定是非黑即白,否則只會世風日下,引致天下大亂,但世事總有灰色地帶,可酌情於法律、道理,人情來處理融和,在人性自利和普世公義上取得平衡,使社會發展得更有效率,。

大是大非就當然係非黑即白,
但係我講既非黑即白係,
例子:

如果話唔鍾意劉德華,

劉德華d fans 一定係咁指住你話:你一定係黎明fans la!

(死.....以上例子,真心表露o左自己年齡....)
作者: little    時間: 2012-11-15 22:44



QUOTE:
原帖由 Casper 於 2012-11-15 22:35 發表

大是大非就當然係非黑即白,
但係我講既非黑即白係,
例子:

如果話唔鍾意劉德華,
劉德華d fans 一定係咁指住你話:你一定係黎明fans la!

(死.....以上例子,真心表露o左自己年齡....)

有時明知對方是有意搞鬼或出於無知、無聊,總之不合理之事情就不用理會,不想得失人就唯有不表態,否則就真是沒完沒了,無日得閒。
作者: cobalt    時間: 2012-11-23 19:46



QUOTE:
原帖由 guardianangel 於 2012-11-14 04:37 發表
Yes I always suspect that these highly homophobic people have strong homosexual desires indeed. That is called internalized homophobia.好多時我睇到d恐同人士咁講野,都會覺得佢地好可悲,多過覺得嬲
...


Apparently it is called "reaction formation". People are so annoying and afflicted sometimes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaction_formation




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